Comments on Lesson #10

 

 

Hello Everyone,

After lesson #10 this comment was made, “If a sin is justified correctly, it is no longer a sin.”

I asked you for responses and this is what came in. I purposely did not identify the senders so enjoy freely. J

Thank you, thank you for your thoughts, don’t ever hesitate with them. This is not a “you’re right or wrong,” it’s a piece of a journey we are truly on together. May the Lord bless you on this road. Nancy

 

Responses

Nancy -

In answer to the question about justification of sin, I have come across the following quote, that really helps me with the whole issue of what I should and shouldn't do:

 And when you have this intention to please God in all your actions as the happiest and best thing in the world, you will find in you as great an aversion to everything that is vain and impertinent in common life, whether of business or pleasure, as you now have to anything that is profane -- William Law – “A Serious Call to a Devout and Holy Life” -- Sincerity of Intention -- 1728

 

Nancy,

This question is based on a false premise.  It assumes that sin may possibly actually be "justified correctly".  That is like requiring someone to ONLY answer 'yes' or 'no'.  Then asking if he has stopped beating his wife.  Either answer is an admission of guilt of past or current action.

 

Nancy,

Just because we can justify something(sin) in our mind, does it take on a different form, shape, or become less sinful just because we can justify it? ANYTHING can become justified if we keep asking the right question. What I mean by that is as simple as, "Should I get my hair cut shorter or change the color?" All I have to do is keep asking the same question to different friends/people till I find that ONE person who thinks as I do, then I have the validation(or justification)that I have been looking for. Just my opinion

 

Now, here’s the Nancy take…

Jeremiah 17: 10 says, “The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?” We understand that Jeremiah gives this phrase following the contrast of those people who trust in self, others, worldly anything verses those who trust God. The definition of justify from The Grosset Webster Dictionary is “1) To show reason for; vindicate; prove to be right.” Here’s where the rubber is going to meet the road… How do we trust God rather than self, others, worldly anything? What measurement do we use “to show reason for; vindicate; prove right.” The only way to do this is to have a standard. And if our standard is God then what we have is the Word; only then we can see if tradition matches the Word, if so we can use it; then we see if reason matches the Word, if so we can use it; and then we see if experience matches the Word, if so we can use it. If any of these areas are contrary to the scripture we must not use them for it then becomes a thing of trusting self, others, the world. I am convinced when or if we need to “justify” anything we use the test of Scripture, reason, experience, tradition then it will become clear if our heart is deceiving us or if we are just seeking to know truth. It is o.k. to question beliefs, or whether something is sin or not, but it must be done using a standard and starting point, which is Scripture.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nancy Cantrell,

Associate Pastor

Harrisonville Church of the Nazarene

 

#10 Comments

Hello Everyone,

Here are a couple of comments I received back. I hope they are helpful or spur more dialog.

Blessings,

Nancy

 

 

 

Lesson #10 Questions/Comments

Nancy, another thing I struggle with is the placement we put on material things. I believe in having just what I need, but I become drawn in to feeling I need more because I feel inferior. My wife and I discuss this and always bring it back into the proper perspective. I still feel it pulling my thoughts. I know I need nothing to stand in front of the Lord, but I struggle and need to remind myself.  This may be a division with in churches and I believe these are things Jude is warning us about. 

Dear Brother in the Lord,

If an individual succumbs to materialism, they carry quilt. The Lord died so we could live victorious and guilt free. Therefore, if we carry guilt into the functions of the church it can be a negative influence causing division.

If an individual succumbs to materialism, it may cause problems in the marriage and home. This causes division in the church because when there is a problem between a husband and wife, the children always know, and then entire family comes into the church setting and covers up their problems, therefore, falsehood is what they present. To really be united we must be real and authentic. This is the one place where there should be no masks, no cover ups and truth prevails.

If an individual succumbs to materialism then their tithes & offerings often suffer, lack of proper funding in the church can definitely cause division.

If an individual succumbs to materialism then they often place a higher value on or give more respect to people who have more wealth or “things.” This causes division in the community of faith by forming cliques and bias’.

     The good news is we can allow the Holy Spirit to indwell us, cleanse us and transform us into the image of Christ. Materialism may continue to be a temptation but we can defeat it by prayer, reading the Word, sharing in the community of faith and sometimes physically fleeing what ever is tempting us. The power of Jesus’ presence in our lives gives us the power to choose, to say no, and to have strength against anything that may cause division in our lives and in our church.

 

 

Nancy, If a sin is justified correctly, it is no longer a sin.

I would like to get your thoughts on this one, then I will comment. Remember, at some point we’ve all practiced justification, so no stone throwing. J

Thanks, Nancy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nancy Cantrell,

Associate Pastor

Harrisonville Church of the Nazarene

 

“To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy – to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen!” (Jude 24-25)

 

Lesson #9

Vs 12-16 (The Message)

These people are warts on your love feasts as you worship and eat together. They’re giving you a black eye – carousing shamelessly, grabbing anything that isn’t nailed down. They’re puffs of smoke pushed by gusts of wind; late autumn trees stripped clean of leaf and fruit, doubly dead, pulled up by the roots; wild ocean waves leaving nothing on the beach but the foam of their shame; lost stars in outer space on their way to the black hole.

Enoch, the seventh after Adam, prophesied of them: “Look! The Master comes with thousands of holy angels to bring judgment against them all, convicting each person of every defiling act of shameless sacrilege, of every dirty word they have spewed of their pious filth.” They are the “grumpers,” the bellyachers, grabbing for the biggest piece of the pie, talking big, saying anything they think will get them ahead.”

 

    These verses give a description of the opponents that highlights the serious danger they pose... Their participation defiles the communal meals of the church. The term love feasts (agapais) can be defined as common meals eaten by early Christians in connection with their church services, for the purpose of fostering and expressing brotherly love. Jude does not specify clearly what the offensive behavior is in which they are indulging, he just simply says they eat together “without reverence” (aphobōs). Jude accuses these false teachers of only caring about themselves at the meals. That accusation anticipates the later charge of creating divisions within the community (vs 19). Since the very phrase used actually means “shepherding themselves,” it is the same accusation used in Ezekiel 34:2. The false shepherds of Israel do not feed the sheep but themselves. These evil folk were preying on the innocent. They were taking advantage of the church and its people, pure selfishness. Now, for the most part the people reading this study are Christians, so it is to us that Jude writes, are there people in our congregation that are preying on the innocent? If so, we must put a stop to it, we must be bold. There are ways to address evil people in the church, Matthew 18: 15-20 gives us much insight into how that should happen.

      But I want to go a different direction, I feel each of us need to evaluate the fellowship times we have in our own congregations. Why do we have fellowship meals, what is the real reason for them?

    Let’s return to the concept of “love feast,” it was a meal held on the Lord’s Day. Everyone brought what he could, and all shared alike. In this “love feast” was true safety, no one was seen as rich, poor, gentile (un-churched), Jew (churched), no race, no ethnicity, all equal, all one in Christ. As a matter of fact, for many of the slaves in Jude’s day it was perhaps the only decent meal they ever ate. Today, our fellowships may be the only place where some people can attend that is not permeated with sin, filth, loneliness, and hate. It may be the only decent place where they have ever been accepted without conditions or bias. Now, look at our fellowship dinners, who are they for? Is it a safe place for the poor, the rich, the un-churched, the churched, are all equal? Is everyone accepted with NO conditions, bias, prejudice or judgment? Or has it become a place for our little church cliques? If you are reading this today and do not feel perfectly comfortable at a church dinner PLEASE send back a comment as to why. It would do us all good to read those.

     Oh my dear brothers and sisters, it is my heart cry that all are welcome in our churches (that’s easy we all can accept that one); and in our fellowships (gets a little harder to befriend someone and have them sit by you and eat); yes, even our intimate circles (here’s where the rubber meets the road, do we really accept them as brethren/family)! May the dirty, drunken, defeated, destitute, empty, intelligent, atheist, wealthy, pierced, tattooed, gay/lesbian, AIDS victim, whatever … ALL find love and acceptance with us. And who are we… the people who claim to be followers of Jesus… Jesus, who was from Nazareth (the arm pit of Israel), homeless, poor, forsaken, often hungry, cursed, thrown out of the church, beat up, dirty, bloody and  murdered. Holy Spirit, help us to see our own attitude toward the acceptance of others regardless of who or what they are. Help us to see them as you do. Forgive us for our fear, our lack of love, and our high view of ourselves. Amen.

Resources: from “Interpretation Commentary Jude by Pheme Perkins; “Beacon Bible Commentary – Jude” by Delbert Rose; and “The Letters of John and Jude” by William Barclay

 

 

Question/Comment on lesson #8

“This is interesting, because I have had conversations with people like this and I feel them drawing me into their act. The constant reminder that brings me back is, the question “is that what I want to be?”  I try to understand but this is a constant struggle to try and help the person who speaks instead of ignoring them. Especially when it is directed towards me.”

 

Wow, you have spoken for all of us. I’m sure, at some point, we are all guilty of having been drawn into the conversation or even becoming the “blow hard” ourselves. Yet, I believe it is the Holy Spirit who checks us with that very question, “is that what I want to be?” At that point, we can evaluate ourselves, the situation, pray for forgiveness if needed and next time be even more sensitive to His voice. Now addressing a person who’s blowing and going on about something they don’t really understand. Sometimes, with some people, you can intervene in the conversation and re-direct it or even make corrections. Remember arguing never works, it didn’t even work with Paul.  But be wary, there are people who will tell you the sky is pea green and no amount of proof will convince them the sky is blue. It is to these people Jude speaks to and warns us about. When the “blowing” is directed at us, we must consider who is saying it and why they may be saying it. Are they upset or angry, do they want to hurt us, are they very insecure? Once, to the best of our ability, we’ve considered them, then we can attempt to correct their statements. As I said, there will always be some people who will not receive correction, in that situation we simply pray the Lord will help them see His truth and help us not to be hurt.